Anti-English Spectrum Cafe Wants You (To Go Away)

May 26th, 2008 · Accidents, Crimes and Scandals, Education and ESL, Netizen comments · 71 comments

As most of you probably know, there is a portion of the online community in South Korea that loves nothing better than the chance to rant away — from behind the safety of their computer screen — against English teachers who sleep with Korean women or do drugs or are unqualified (but mostly, the ones who sleep with Korean women). For background, see The Marmot on English Spectrum-gate and Gusts of Popular Feeling on the history of scapegoating English teachers.

One of the leading internet forums for these keyboard warriors is Anti-English Spectrum. Let’s look at its statement of purpose:

Until the degradation of Korean women by English Spectrum is ended, we are the voice of the common citizens of the Republic of Korea.

Each and every one of us dreams of a better future and is busy working for it.

One day, our anger overflowed, as we felt unendurable humiliation through reading of the debasement of Korean women by the arrogant, infamous English Spectrum. We gathered here through our seething consciences, our “active consciences”, which could not stand this.

A heart which could hear of this evil work and yet be able to endure it is a heart already shriveled up and died.

Bothered by this, and gathering our power together, our consciences would not allow us to overlook this tragic story as if we were looking across a river.

We are aware that loving your country does not only mean taking up arms and fighting in a war.

Against illegal, low-quality English instructors who prevent our land from learning English and against English Spectrum, who debased and degraded the image of Korean women to that of one country’s filthy national brand — this is our strong fight!

We know well what a long and difficult journey this will be for the country we love.

We gather here to do two things for that journey.

Anger at the arrogant English Spectrum, alive and well as ever despite criticism for its debasement of Korean women, and the expulsion of illegal, low-quality English instructors.

The small but powerful country, the Republic of Korea!

We are Anti-English Spectrum, fighting for justice for a land whose heart is not yet shriveled up.

Our work holds meaning for our country and our society. We do it together!

This is the citizens’ movement for the expulsion of illegal foreign language teachers.

Strong words. But let me tell you, I look every week for any story with a credible accusation of sexual assault against an ESL teacher, and there are none (having fun at a nightclub doesn’t count). Meanwhile, Mr. Choi, the owner of an English hagwon in Guri, is serving 18 months in prison for beating and raping a woman who accidentally stumbled into his room in a nightclub. I certainly hope that Anti-English Spectrum will be all over this real violation of a Korean woman by a member of the ESL industry – oh wait, what am I saying.

71 comments

  • soon all will be able to visit my online anonymous message board/chat room/avatar museum called Anti Anti English Spectrum. we will have many stories and documentation of low quality and illegal Koreans who damage South Korea’s image on the world stage. we will stand against and secretly gather intel which will enable us to slander and maim the reputations of low quality Korean teachers who abuse women in public, molest their students, distribute leftist propaganda, or seek to degrade or debase the hard work of thousands of foreign teachers who come to Korea in good faith only to be sexually objectified, judged, spit on, laughed at, humiliated, mistreated by shady school owners, or abused by a racist system that favors people of the Han.

    55 Million Reasons · May 26th, 2008 at 11:55 AM

  • Hilarious. Reminds me of my childhood when my friends and I would build a clubhouse and would write a constitution to keep people we didn’t like out.

    Aaron · May 26th, 2008 at 12:09 PM

  • Damn right. It’s lucky for Korean girls that they have responsible young men like this to protect them from the temptations of hairy, sweaty, big-nosed foreigners (mmm…) because, let’s face it, Korean girls have no minds of their own and only do what they’re told. Shame on you, foreigners. Shame on you.

    baekgom84 · May 26th, 2008 at 1:18 PM

  • We are Anti-English Spectrum, fighting for justice for a land whose heart is not yet shriveled up.

    Well, I for one am glad to hear their hearts haven’t shriveled up consideing their balls have obviously withered away.

    William G · May 26th, 2008 at 1:30 PM

  • I dunno, I’ve seen several instances of Korean men hitting or joseling their women in public and the only reason i didnt pop the guy is that I am quite sure the Korean legal system would still favor him. The reason that so many Korean women gravitate to Western men is because so many Korean men treat their women like shit. Dont blame us cuz we know that if we treated women like that back home we’d live a lonely life. I’m not trying to stereotype but i agree. When is the last time you have heard of a foreigner committing an assult on a Korean girl? Now think of how many instances there are of Korean men assaulting western women. This may sound ugly but tell me if Im wrong.

    Foreigner · May 26th, 2008 at 4:37 PM

  • The problem isn’t Korean men hurting Korean women, the problem lies in society and its easy acceptance of violence. You don’t “pop the guy” because in the eyes of the law you are the only one committing a crime. You attacked a stranger, you’re the bad person.It’s perfectly fine to hurt someone, as long as they are family, a friend, or a “junior”. Or failing all that, a “respected” older person. All that’s a generalization, though often true.

    Anti-spectrum site participants are nothing but racists, if you were to flip it around, make the Koreans on the receiving end in your home country, our gov’ts would write them off as racists, and our newspapers would rip them a new one. They’d be shunned and minimalized, wouldn’t have the cops working with them, that’s for certain.

    budthespud · May 26th, 2008 at 5:58 PM

  • Yeh, you’re right… but you are not in your country!
    So do everything you can to ameliorate the image of the foreign teachers community instaed of always blaming the bad and horrible racists in Korea. You will not change the genaral mind but you can point out at positive things that ESL teachers or others can do for the Koreans. You want respect, do something to prove you deserve it!

    Anonymous · May 26th, 2008 at 7:01 PM

  • I dont even know how this turned into a discussion. Can one single person here actually agree with the author of the article? Because if you dont, there should be no contradictory thoughts flaring on this board. Unless of course, (insert name here) is trying to tip pie toe around his or her convictions to not make it seem as offensive ;).

    alex · May 27th, 2008 at 12:07 AM

  • Well it’s directed at those foreigners that date korean girls and cowardly post racist comments on about them on the internet or criticize them and their culture….kinda like this site?
    grow some balls please?

    woot · May 27th, 2008 at 2:30 AM

  • Has anyone read some of the websites and forums for foreign teachers/expats?

    there’s a lot of scum on those boards and they’re openly humilating these girls, their clients, neighbors whomever. They have an air of open ignorance/arrogance…i’m sure you can all relate. I saw this coming as soon as the expat idiots got a hold of the keyboard.

    LOL · May 27th, 2008 at 2:35 AM

  • Look up the instances of foreignors raping/killing/abusing korena women on the web. The korean population reads up on this stuff while foreigners only remembers korean men abusing women. It goes both ways, but still making a comment like “Korean men treat women like shit, so we should come in and rescue/liberate theM” is the most retarded,
    racist and sexist ideology that’s common with most foreign visitors. Get off your fuckin high horses! Why is it so hard to treat the koreans like i do, as INDIVIDUALS instead of somthing so exotically collective? Dumbasses.

    Whoeezit · May 27th, 2008 at 2:40 AM

  • uh…it’s a backlash over a moronic “how to molest your students” post by a teacher.

    I think all this backlash is justified. If this kinda stuff happened at home, we’d have riots.

    NUFF · May 27th, 2008 at 2:45 AM

  • YOU ARE NOT AT HOME it’s about time you accept it!

    Anonymous · May 27th, 2008 at 2:58 AM

  • 95% of the netizen comments on that site are from Korean males. With that in mind, I think it’s quite obvious that all of this is window-dressing for them feeling slighted that we can pick up Korean girls just by showing up at a bar and not having to go through their tortured courtship rituals like brokered intros (ie., 부킹, 소개팅, 중매결혼, etc…)

    Galbijim · May 27th, 2008 at 6:13 AM

  • “Look up the instances of foreigners raping/killing/abusing korean women on the web.”

    Got a link or three?

    Koreabeat, they found you.

    budthespud · May 27th, 2008 at 7:45 AM

  • Like I said, I’ve never heard of any credible allegation of an ESL teacher in Korea committing a major violent crime. Foreigners in general, yes, westerners, very litte, and ESL teachers, none. If Whoeezit knows different I would love to see the link.

    And woot, if you have an example of me being racist, please tell me. Don’t hold your tongue.

    Korea Beat · May 27th, 2008 at 8:36 AM

  • You probably saw the fluff piece in the Korea Times a few weeks ago, where this group—under a new name—was working to improve the image of foreigners in Korea by expelling the bad ones. *Sigh* I’d actually just prefer the unbridled racism to these thinly-vieled attempts at legitimacy. Problem is, I’ll bet a lot of people who read that KT piece hadn’t heard of the group in its previous incarnation.

    Somebody else pointed this out, I think on Dave’s, that he doesn’t understand the connection between having a social life and being “qualified.” I mean, they go after white guys ostensibly to clean up the EFL industry, but why does going to the bar automatically disqualify somebody? The problem is “qualified” is used to mean two things: (a) documented, and (b) skilled. I don’t know if I’m skilled, but I’m certainly qualified in the eyes of the government, because I have all my paperwork in order. And no amount of dancing, drinking, and race-mixing will change that.

    Brian · May 27th, 2008 at 9:15 AM

  • Let’s see, a group that wants to preserve the purity of the race by eliminating foreigners…I think we have a group like that back home. They’re called the KKK. What, exactly, makes these “patriots” any different from the KKK? I see two sides of the same coin.

    Please, if you have links about foreign teachers committing acts of violence, post them. I can’t remember ever hearing a story where the teacher was the criminal instead of the victim.

    Matt · May 27th, 2008 at 9:16 AM

  • So the neti-dorks are still uppity over the english spectrum stuff?
    Well, that’s just too bad. They need to grow up and get outside.
    I remember reading an article about the netizens. Whenever the police come to their house, they’re almost always young, meek, weak-sounding, and unaware of the problems they caused. In other words, paper tigers.
    So they want to expel illegal EFL teachers, huh? Since when are they empowered to do this by the Ministry of Justice? Because one way to check this is to check for an ARC, but that’s not a citizen’s job.

    So they got uppity over a party that some foreigners hosted, huh? In which case, I have some tips for you neti-dorks.
    Instead of whining and carrying on when I’m at the bar with 2 ladies, you should take notes. It’s not rocket science. Well OK, for you it might as well be rocket science, but still. If you can’t get a Korean woman, that’s not our fault. There’s plenty here so you don’t have any excuse. As we say back home “Grow a pair”

    AgentX · May 27th, 2008 at 10:09 AM

  • I bet all the members of the cafe still live at home, making slaves of their mothers and paupers out of their fathers, playing video games all day trying to blaim someone, anyone for their inadequacies and over-inflated expectations of the life they think they deserve for sitting in frount of a mirror, obsessing over their hair and waving a flag at every cause they couldn’t possably understand.

    As a teacher I must say, thank goodness for ignorance. I will never be out of a job :)

    I have gone from anger to pity. Soon, indifference.

    I am happy to have met some really good Koreans otherwise I might lets these silly people flavour my perceptions of Korea.

    hitest · May 27th, 2008 at 10:31 AM

  • umm… let’s not stray too far from the issue here- this isn’t just foriegners picking up korean chicks. These are TEACHERS posting about MOLESTING thier STUDENTS. does anyone not get how offensively shocking that is? TEACHERS MOLESTING STUDENTS or even just joking about that is SERIOUS. Maybe it has to do with the quality of the teachers here. No one really has a deep cultural respect for anything- it’s just people with an innate native english skill goofin around and seeing the world. Obviously “seeing” the world doesn’t add any attempt to understand the culture. In fact most of the 1st year teachers end up bitchin about how “different” it is here (duh) and later become to resent the people. I sense a lot of resentment on this site as well. I kno for a fact if a Korean dude came to the states and did even HALF the stuff these fucks do here, they’d be torching stores down the block. So take it for what it is and try to prove there’s some good people out there instead of “expecting” that korean will hand feed you everything.

    NUFF · May 27th, 2008 at 11:56 AM

  • Nuff I am sorry to disagree, in part with what you claim.

    I certainly do not advocate anyone molesting students, especially not their teachers, but who are you refering to ?

    As I understand someone posted a “how to molest your students” some years back, which of course, even if meant to be a joke was, and still is in extremely bad taste.

    Are you suggesting that this group is formed around this incident ? Do you have other incidents ?

    The issue seems to be ” Westerners degrade our woman by being with them.” Lets not forget the women are making choices and exercising their free will to choose to do what they want to do.

    Yet again it is the evil foreigner “forcing” Korean women to debase themselves,because as we all know Korean women are incapable of controling themselves around blue eyes. If that is how Korean men see Korean women, no wonder they choose to “integrate”.

    As I see it, the group is looking for a reason to spread hate and looking for an out let for their petty jealousy.

    I am all for getting rid of bad, unscrupulous teachers, Korean or non-Korean. As a matter of fact I wish they would stop hiring just anyone to teach, then they wouldn’t have to get rid of anyone.

    As I see it, to be honest, Koreans deserve the blaim for their desperate hiring practices. But of course, one sees most clearly outward. Looking inward takes insight and honesty.

    hitest · May 27th, 2008 at 1:32 PM

  • last weekend my waygook friend and I were walking down the sidewalk and we saw some guy (early 20’s) angry at his gf… he grabbed her and put her in a headlock, indeed showing her who’s boss. Irate, my buddy and I instantly and simultaneously grabbed the guy. I literally had to rip the guy’s arm off her neck. Knowing that he was outnumbered, he didn’t try anything with us, but was surprised that we’d intervened, and told us English, literally, “it’s ok! it’s my girlfriend!” We told him it’s not, and he argued for a few seconds before I yelled at him in Korean, at which point he apologized profusely to us. We told him to apologize to her, but that didn’t work. I hope he didn’t clean her clock after we left and they went somewhere private. On the surface, the guy wouldn’t have come across as a piece of trash, but I can only imagine what some person back home with a similar entitled-to-abuse-his-gf-in-public attitude would have looked like.

    shocked · May 27th, 2008 at 2:57 PM

  • Haha “paper tigers.” Great stuff.

    livinginkorea · May 27th, 2008 at 4:36 PM

  • “the reason that so many Korean women gravitate to Western men is because so many Korean men treat their women like shit.”

    Bull#$$ Western men do the same thing so stop telling that lie. Also Korean women gravitate to Western men based upon a myth which states all of them are rich-which they’re not.

    dwilliams · May 27th, 2008 at 6:49 PM

  • Nuff, I will repeat, have you ever heard of a credible allegation of molestation made against an ESL teacher? I personally have not. And I would think that if there had been one in the past decade, or even longer, it almost certainly would have already been brought up in this comments section already.

    Korea Beat · May 27th, 2008 at 8:20 PM

  • I have: “Christopher Paul Neil an English teacher in South Korea. He was a Canaddian born in 1975 (…) Cambodian police said on Tuesday a suspected serial pedophile being hunted by Interpol across Asia was a Canadian national called Christopher Paul Neil, born in 1975.

    Keo Vanthan, deputy director of Interpol offices in the impoverished Southeast Asian nation, said Neil had visited Cambodia before leaving for Vietnam, but had no further details.

    “We have issued an alert to all our international borders,” Keo Vanthan told Reuters, although he added that Cambodia did not yet have enough evidence against Neil to issue an arrest warrant.

    Interpol said on Monday the suspect, code-named “Vico”, was believed to have fled to Thailand last week from South Korea where he had been teaching English.”
    You can check this info on the web!

    Anonymous · May 27th, 2008 at 8:56 PM

  • I totally agree with comment #9 from Woot! Most Westerners who date Korean girls are so hypocritical: you can see them at the CGV holding hands and looking all nice… and then next thing, you can read comments on the net about their sexual intercourse! Hey guys, stop acting like lubricious animals. Please act either like gentlemen or arseholes right from the beginning so that we, women, know what we can expect from you. And this is also applicable when dating western girls. Your attitude is despicable. On this site I keep reading comments on how Korean guys do not know how to treat their girfriends properly and how contrarily to them Westerners are soft and sweet with their women… It makes me want to puke! And this is coming from a Western girl who happily married a Korean man.

    Anonymous · May 27th, 2008 at 9:28 PM

  • Christopher Paul Neil was never accused of a crime in South Korea. Maybe I’m going to sound cold-hearted but it’s hard to see how he can count in this debate.

    Korea Beat · May 27th, 2008 at 9:49 PM

  • LOL! Do you know for sure that Christopher Neil didn’t abuse Korean children? Personnaly I don’t know, but he did abuse some kids in Thailand and cambodia so why would he have spared Korean ones?

    Anonymous · May 27th, 2008 at 10:28 PM

  • And this is coming from a Western girl who happily married a Korean man.

    Bullshit

    No one really has a deep cultural respect for anything- it’s just people with an innate native english skill goofin around and seeing the world.

    Bullshit

    First off, the “How To Molest Your Students” thing was on Koreanesl.com… which was owned by a Korean living in Canada. And it was written by one of the trolls who are trolling this comment thread right now. It had nothing to do with any of this.

    Secondly, Anti-English Spectrum are ballless cunt-faces who are angry that young Korean women like the white cock.

    And in a few generations, there are going to be a lot of white babies running around in the hermit kingdom while they’re still sitting there playing Starcraft in between rants.

    William G · May 27th, 2008 at 10:38 PM

  • MANY Korean men (complete strangers) come up to my Asian boyfriend and ask him how he “got me”, a white woman. They have asked him if it is because he is rich,(no) and even about the size of his penis!!! Some have even gone so far as so “check” when he is using the toliet. They can not belive it and ask him how they can do it to. A very strange preoccupation based only on the colour of my skin…or maybe I’m just really hot! ;) (joke)

    Anonymous · May 27th, 2008 at 11:37 PM

  • Hey, William G! Who the fuck are you to assume that I’m lying?! My Name is Alexandra Kim from France, I got married in 2002 in Korea with Min Ho Kim, a taekwondo master! I can prove my ID any time and even kick you arse since I am also a Taekwondo black belt. Fucking looser!

    Anonymous · May 28th, 2008 at 12:10 AM

  • And I’d like to had (to my last comment #33) that if you want to debate on this with my husband you are invited to his Taekwondo gym… We’ll see if you don’t shit your pants! He always tells me that I shouldn’t get concerned about people like you who always look down on Koreans, that I can only waste my time… but now his fists are getting itchy! Fancy a try?

    Anonymous · May 28th, 2008 at 1:14 AM

  • 너 양말냄새나!

    Galbijim · May 28th, 2008 at 4:02 AM

  • 음..이상한 영어…아~..맞아! 교포냄새나!

    Galbijim · May 28th, 2008 at 4:17 AM

  • HAHA! Alex was causing problems in another thread (the one about mixed asian kids doing poorer in school cause their fathers cant be bothered to teach them Korean) and so has come back Anonymously in this one. lol

    Anonymous · May 28th, 2008 at 9:21 AM

  • I don’t think Alex was causing any trouble in the other thread, but this one is getting out of control and if people don’t start being relatively civil again I’m going to lock it from further discussion.

    Korea Beat · May 28th, 2008 at 9:31 AM

  • GJ, my thoughts exactly.

    Too bad the Korean police aren’t concerned about pedophiles in this country. There are so many Korean ones it’s not funny, so many are working as teachers in the middle and high schools here. There are MANY stories every month about that, yet very little gets done. At most, a teacher accused of sexual harrassment of a student may get a paid holiday, or moved to a new school. Also, it’s not a new phenomenon, my wife has stories from her school days of the male principal and his disgusting antics. The students had to strip down to their skivvies for a health inspection, and the principal would look over every girl student, paying special attention to certain body parts. Ewww!

    budthespud · May 28th, 2008 at 9:44 AM

  • hahahahahahahahqa

    ” While they’re still playing starcraft between rants ”

    omgz0r =O Dude, that was brilliant. My hats off to ya.

    alex · May 28th, 2008 at 10:28 AM

  • in response to comment #38 from Korea Beat:

    The thing is, whether you are Korean or not, that some reactions on the issue “Korean women dating foreigners for whatever reasons and in whatever context” are particularly hurting. My apologies for the swearing, a teacher should know better, but I think we should consider this topic from a larger angle of vision than just the Korean/Foreigner one. Whatever the nationality, attitude problems between men and women have always existed everywhere in the world. So I think it is really unfare to say “Koreans can’t treat their women properly” and “Westerners never lose an occasion to mock Korean girls”. From my personal point of view I had more problems with Westerners than with Koreans, so you will excuse me if I’m taking their side (even if some of the Anti-English Spectrum members are going too far). So when William G allows himself to write such things as ” their balls have obviously withered away” on comment #4, “Anti-English Spectrum are ballless cunt-faces who are angry that young Korean women like the white cock” comment #31 or “And this is coming from a Western girl who happily married a Korean man – Bullshit” still on comment #31, please allow me to ask the members of this forum who is going too far? Shall we all excuse him for his lack of manners and discernment? I don’t think so! Obviously, some people taking part in discussions on this site are not who they pretend to be, ie: people with extenSive education.

    Anonymous · May 28th, 2008 at 4:14 PM

  • unfortunately there are problems between men and women all over the world, whether it be abuse (physical, verbal, mental), manners, etc…. i think as individuals, we do have the right to say what we feel, however, we also must think outside the box (in this case Korea) and try not to forget where we came from…. no country is perfect and many are different… i’ve been here over 4 years and will be married next year (to a Korean woman) and I’m still getting used to things… bottom line is, when it comes to forums like these, we need to be level-headed…. what was once a comment about an article, has now turned into insults and backlash against each other…

    i too have strong feelings regarding this topic as well as others (Korean police) and have gotten into heated discussions numerous times… but at the end of the day, my frustration changed nothing… it’s almost like we have to learn to deal with things (just like we do back home) instead of flipping out… anywho, just my 2 cents worth…

    JM · May 28th, 2008 at 5:20 PM

  • The internet has pretty much ended the idea that the union of a white male and an Asian female is necessarily positive-East meets West and from which understanding, respect, and lots of other good stuff will develop blah blah blah. Too many white guys gloating about their conquest of Asian women, and not enough Asian women challenging the racially charged misogyny of said white men. Also not enough white guys, who are free of contempt for the local culture, in relationships with local women will confront other white guys who are assholes.

    I’m really not against inter-racial relationships, but there is no other coupling that just seems so unsavory. In the west, we are lead to believe that such couples should be regarded as people who are open minded and therefore should be admired. And that is the case for all the different couplings except for the Asian female/white male one. This idea is becoming much more prevalent.

    Finally this is addressed to Korean Beat:
    You seem to concentrate on the trivial. And thats okay, it’s your blog. But I do have a request. Are you aware of any Korean news articles about the deaths of two Korean nationals in New Zealand. Both made the New Zealand news, but is there something in the Korean language news about their deaths. The most recent one involved a car accident, but no body was found. NZ police speculate that the man survived the crash and walked away, but no body was found. The latest I read in the NZ press is that he could have possibly been murdered.

    Let me speculate a bit. The man survives the crash, he walks away to look for help. He flags down someone, however instead of help the person kills the Korean. Not too far-fetched if you think about it. Quite a bit of white power activity in NZ recently. Look it up on YouTube. Why is it important? Koreans should be wary when they travel abroad. Not all locals are friendly.

    Also your attempt to exclude the Canadian pedo from the debate about ESL teachers and molesting children is feeble.

    Anonymous · May 28th, 2008 at 9:23 PM

  • What are Asian women saying about these relationships? We hear from the white men and the Asian men but what are Asian women saying about the relationships they are in? Are they making their voices heard on the English Spectrum site? The Korean women that I know as a whole would not so weak minded that they would just sit there and take it.

    I also wonder just how many of these white men who are making these comments on these sites are actually doing the things that they say they did. In an online place where no one knows who they are I doubt that they would every over glorify their deads. :P Just as perhaps these Korean men are just supposidly spending all their time online playing Starcraft and complaining about white guys stealing their girls, I’m sure there are plenty of white guys who cant get a date going online and making up their sextual exploits in an attempt to impress their online buddies.

    Anonymous · May 28th, 2008 at 9:58 PM

  • I sure wish I knew which anonymous commenter to respond to. Pick screen names, guys. It isn’t really that hard.

    Anyway, I won’t disagree that there are unsavory inter-racial relationships. And sure, internet tough guys pop up on both sides. My point is, at least be civil when responding to other commenters. If you can’t, don’t comment.

    As far as Christopher Paul Neil, the guy was never accused in Korea. And the kids he abused in other countries were not his students — as far as I know, they were kids being held captive and he paid to be with them.

    Korea Beat · May 28th, 2008 at 11:14 PM

  • I’m the Anonymous who made the 43rd comment. Your call for civility should have been made much earlier. Neither my comment nor the 44th comment were uncivil.

    Since you did not address my request for any info on the two Koreans who died in NZ, I’ll take it to mean that either the story was never reported in the Korean language press or you just missed it. If it is the latter case, then I guess it’s understandable. You seem really busy with reporting on such weighty topics as Nicky Hilton and the Anti-English Spectrum. The sarcasm is intentional.

    As for the Canadian pedo, well let me first say that you should know childhood sexual abuse is a very serious matter. I think you grew up in the west. If you grew up in the US, then you should know about the terrible tragedy of the catholic priests who molested young boys. I think a number of the young boys ended up committing suicide.

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with saying “the guy was never accused in Korea” with regards to molesting young children. The Canadian had no business teaching young children anywhere. If you want to keep defending him then let me ask you this: Would you allow this man to teach your kids?

    Anyway, Korea does have a problem. It spends quite a bit on learning English, but the results are not good. Since English is important, the education ministry should do something substantial. It needs to learn from say the Finns on how to teach English. What that means is more native Koreans who are fluent in English with better teaching methods. The results will probably be much better and less expensive.

    Finally, the Koreans need to dispense with the idea that only a native English speaker can teach proper English. Koreans have made the mistake of associating language with a certain race. Koreans need to see people like themselves who speak English well. That should reduce the intimidation factor that seems to prevent Koreans from learning English.

    Anonymous · May 29th, 2008 at 12:19 AM

  • The employer who hired Christopher Paul Neil without doing due diligence screening, was Korean. And 95% of the recruiters and employers in Korea who are scrambling to find any warm white body to stand in front of a classroom, are Korean. The screening process is absolutely pathetic and basically amounts to a 10 minute phone call which people call an interview, but its more of a sales pitch to get the teacher to commit. And these are Koreans and kyopos being entrusted to hire in the best interests of students (and the helpless, young Korean women who fall under the spell of the white barbarians and are forced against their will to date and/or copulate with them.)

    You complain about the white barbarians as if that’s the source of the problem, yet fail to acknowledge that your own countrymen are not willingly holding the door open, but are clamoring for any white barbarian that burps out a ‘yes’.

    You propose braindead solutions on your site such as encouraging directors to hire women or kyopos instead, without realizing that you are creating a greater bottleneck of the root problem. The demand for women has become so high that white girls get approached on the street in Itaewon and are able to command over 100,000won/hour for private lessons, and thereby driving the underground industry so much that not only do schools have to fight over the limited supply of available female teachers, but that many Canadian girls are starting to instead work underground on 6 month tourist visas, because they can make so much more.

    And Korean mothers may put on a happy face about seeing a kyopo in a classroom, but they sure as hell don’t prefer them over whites. Even white men. Anyone who disagrees on that point is thinking with their dick and not about the prejudicial hiring that exists not just in ESL Korea, but also white collar Korea concerning the underemployment/opportunities for Korean women (and contrary to how the media says that’s changing, just ask any HR manager of any company about the clammy hands that they get once they hear that a female employee has become pregnant and the uncertainty if she’ll resume her career after taking mat leave).

    Anyways, the point is that the rabbit hole runs far deeper than the surface issues of drunk foreigners in Hongdae picking up girls or belching in classrooms.

    The source of the problem you complain about, as much as you don’t want to admit it, is of Korean origin and it’d best to get the affairs of your profiteering countrymen in order, before complaining about the byproduct that stems from their actions.

    Galbijim · May 29th, 2008 at 12:39 AM

  • Galbijim,

    If you’re addressing the 46th comment, then let me respond by saying that you must have chosen to ignore what I said about Koreans and their attitudes about race and language. And anti-english spectrum is not my site.

    In my previous comment I specifically stated Native Koreans should teach english. Overseas Koreans, in my opinion should not in most cases be given any preferential treatment over others. Koreans who grew up in english speaking countries seem to interact uncomfortably with Native Koreans.

    Just to restate what I said about english language instruction in Korea. Native Koreans who majored in english should teach their fellow Koreans. Let them study in an english speaking country for up to two years while they are in college at the expense of the state. They should also learn how to teach a foreign language. This plan may seem expensive, but it cannot be more than what Koreans are paying with the current system.

    Also, I’m not against the AF/WM coupling. It’s just that I don’t have an initial good impression unlike say a White/Black relationship. The reason is because of negative statements made by many white males and the lack of responses by Asian females. If the AF/WM couple seem okay, then I’m fine with it.

    Anonymous · May 29th, 2008 at 1:36 AM

  • I don’t know who I’m retorting to, but I’m assuming that the posters ducking behind Anonymous usernames are Korean or Kyopo and/or from that site. I’ve been logging in over there and reading some of the crap and their initatives/goals are completely directionless or poorly thought out. And the baselessness of it and lack of consideration of the root problems, reveals that there is a too much of a bias there to entertain anything serious on the whole issue. I’m basically responding to all of that as a whole.

    However, the teacher’s side is not without its own site that exudes its own naive bias and fails to approach the issue effectively, and that’s eslcafe. So there are two extremes at work and both are populated by idealistic males who concoct half-assed ideas without fully understanding what ails the industry at its different levels.

    As for your idea to have native Koreans teach English, I don’t dismiss as that as being a poor idea. In fact, I’ve always been an advocate of Japan’s JET Programme which employs a native Japanese to run the class, while the foreign ALT (Assistant Language Teacher) also remains in the class for support. And it would give mothers much more comfort in knowing that the teaching environment is optimized not just for eduction, but safety, as both teachers would balance out any concerns over what happens behind closed doors, regardless if it’s a Korean beating the hell out of the legs of a student with her stick, or a foreign teacher swearing, sleeping or getting inappropriate with students.

    But without having a foreigner in the classroom in public schools will drive the private education industry further out of control, as mothers have far less confidence in their students learning from a Korean English teacher than a foreigner. And the hagwons will still employ the whites, because they know that’s what really drives tuition and enrollment, especially if public schools cease employing foreign teachers. And then with that comes more money leaving the country to overseas camps and homestays, etc…In short, it’d be more undesirable for the players in the industry to operate without native teachers than to have to tolerate them.

    You can’t change this issue by improving the English education of Korean teachers, as the real issue is with Korean mothers and their picky preferences. Korean mothers are the tail that wags the dog of the whole industry. And that’s something that’s ingrained into the competitive mindset of the society. To change the competitive educational environment that drives all this would require massive overhaul on the entire education infrastructure of the country and not just some staffing decisions made in the ESL portion.

    Galbijim · May 29th, 2008 at 2:17 AM

  • Galbijim,

    The above user name is just to let people know what comments I’ve made.

    Let me address the following statement you made:

    “I don’t know who I’m retorting to, but I’m assuming that the posters ducking behind Anonymous usernames are Korean or Kyopo and/or from that site.”

    The implication of your statement seems to be that what Koreans have to say about english language instruction is less valid (and therefore should not be taken seriously) than what white males have to say. Fair minded people will find fault with that sort of thinking.

    First I’ll address what I know about the JET program. From what I’ve heard from teachers who have taught in both Korean and Japan, the JET program is no more effective than the way Korea teaches english. Both systems do a sub-par job. I’ve met a number of Japanese students and their english is not good.

    I think many Koreans, who work some of the longest hours of any OECD country, are just fed up with the how little they get in return from their investment with regards to their children learning english. Of course the system should be faulted, but white males stick out and much of the anger will be directed towards you. White males who come to work hung over and make surly comments on the internet do not make you very sympathetic. Is it fair that good teachers get lumped with bad ones. Of course not. It’s not fair, but I’m sure you know life is not fair. I know some of you have expressed the same sentiment.

    Maybe I’m the one who is too idealistic. I really believe that Koreans can overcome the idea that only whites can teach english. The Korean mothers really need to come to grips with that fact.

    Finally, I’ve never been on that anti-english spectrum website. There was a link to K Beat from a site called Asian Off-Beat. That’s how I found this discussion.

    I made comments 43,46,48 · May 29th, 2008 at 3:09 AM

  • I’m aware of the shortcomings of JET. But those shortcomings suffer the same faults as any ESL program in a country where the common language is not English. Naturally, one is not likely to learn jack squat by speaking English 5 days a week and for 1 hour at time, and in a classroom of 10-20 other students trying to get some speaking time with the foreign teacher. The math is not there in any system. But some of the core fundamentals of JET Programme remedy some of the common ails of Korean ESL, notably when it comes to hiring and accountability. Such as my previously mentioned reference about ALTs, but also that JET does all hiring through overseas offices, does panel interviews, requires demo lessons, etc…And applicants frequently get turned down, if they fail part of the applicant process. You’ll sometimes hear of teacher trying numerous times to get on with JET, unlike EPIK and GEPIK in Korea, where you basically need to pass your piss tests, criminal record check, give degree/transcripts and must have the ability to mouth the word ‘yes’ and you’ve got a job.

    We’re talking night and day as far as hiring situations. The bad apples do get into Japan. But it’s certainly not the ‘anything goes’ environment that Korea is in. And until Korea nudges in that direction of having a legit ESL industry, the only thing left will be the blame game and pointing fingers at each other.

    Galbijim · May 29th, 2008 at 6:28 AM

  • This idea of having a native Korean running the class, while the foreign ALT (Assistant Language Teacher) remains in the class for support is great! This is the system we have in public schools in Europe and it works well. At the end of the day what really matters is that the kids receive proper education whether the parents are happy or not to hear that the ALT is black/white/Asian… The root of the problem in Korea is not so much the lack of ideas or competences, it is that teaching English has become a very lucrative business. The Korean governemnt should takle the problem by imposing limits to hagwans regarding their fees and it should also control the syllabuses.

    Alex Kim · May 29th, 2008 at 6:48 AM

  • I bet if a teacher did anything wrong ppl here would find some reason to blame korean cops and society and all this other bullshit. Am i alone in feeling a little bit of anti-korean and supremacy issues here?

    “korean girls like the white cock?”
    WTF? That’s the best contribution you could’ve made into the discussion? these are fellow TEACHERS saying this filth?
    at least SOUND educated….goddamn idiot.

    NUFF · May 29th, 2008 at 8:22 AM

  • The govt does have limits in place for hagwon fees. It may have been increased in the past few years, but as of 2005, the monthly tuition limit in Daegu was 200,000won. Yet, from my experience as a recruiter and networking in that city back then, I only knew of a small handful that were charging for 200K or less. The problem is with enforcement. Then, even if there was enough manpower to enforce, you have to factor in black money pay-offs. The private education side of the industry is near impossible to regulate and virtually every curb or control can be circumvented. The public system, however, is salvageable, as greed doesn’t play such a dominating factor.

    Galbijim · May 29th, 2008 at 8:26 AM

  • #53, the ‘whiny male kyopo vs whiny male foreigner’ party wrapped up awhile ago. You can try looking on any random thread at Daves for more of that. The rest of us are talking about the underlying industry issues minus the boring dick measuring contests. Hopefully it can stay that way.

    Galbijim · May 29th, 2008 at 8:37 AM

  • Galbijim and Alex Kim,

    Both of you make excellent points.

    Korea should look at Japan’s JET program and adopt its best practices in terms of hiring. The likelihood of another Canadian pedo entering and teaching Korean children should be minimized.

    And I’m happy to hear that the native teacher/foreign ALT model works well in Europe.

    So it seems we all agree that the native teacher/foreign ALT model is the way to go. Since Korea wants its people to learn North American english, Korea should recruit a wide variety (in terms of race) of native english speakers. My hope is that Koreans learn language is not race specific.

    Just a couple of final points. First I hope some of the firebrands at anti-english spectrum read this and if they have in’s with anyone in the govt that can make things happen, then they should share the ideas discussed here with the rainmakers.

    I’m glad that the discussion ended up to be civil.
    But I’m not going to condemn anti-es. They attack scumbags. If you act like a scumbag, then you should not be surprised that people treat you like a scumbag. If you’re not a scumbag, then there is nothing to worry about.

    Finally, thank you for the opportunity to debate. This will be my last post here. Like I said in a previous comment, I came to this discussion from a link posted on a site call Asian Off-Beat. I think I visited K Beat previously from a link on Dramabeans, which is a great site by the way. I hadn’t stayed long and never commented during my previous visits. I really don’t see myself visiting K Beat again any time soon.

    Anyway, have a great summer everybody.

    I made comments 43,46,48 · May 29th, 2008 at 8:46 AM

  • It’s too bad you’re going, because when the insults stopped this actually turned into a productive discussion. Also, I wanted to tell you to get off your high horse about what kinds of stories I put on the blog, and judging me for not immediately putting up a post about the NZ incident. Korea Beat was never intended to be anybody’s main source of news about Korea but to find offbeat stories that fall through the cracks. Maybe that’s why we often get linked to by a site called Asian OFFBEAT.

    I do posts from reader requests fairly often, so I was probably going to do some research and do a post about it, but it seems you were more interested in using it as a rhetorical cudgel than actually being interested in knowing what happened.

    Korea Beat · May 29th, 2008 at 9:54 AM

  • “Like I said, I’ve never heard of any credible allegation of an ESL teacher in Korea committing a major violent crime. Foreigners in general, yes, westerners, very litte, and ESL teachers, none. If Whoeezit knows different I would love to see the link.”

    Korea Beat – the excellent history of scapegoating English Teachers in Korea at “Gusts of Popular Feeling” you linked to at the top of your post does provide an incident of “An American English teacher convicted of attempting to rape one of his students”. September 25, 2002 from the JoongAng Daily http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=1908932

    No idea how credible it is, but it’s there. Anyone know anything about this one or have any others to list?

    BKW · May 30th, 2008 at 5:39 PM

  • Well, I eat my words! I read that post quite a while ago and completely forgot about that. It would probably take a while to dig up the original articles from six years ago, if they are even available or were written in the first place, but maybe I’ll give it a try.

    Korea Beat · May 30th, 2008 at 11:37 PM

  • Wasn’t meant as a meal – very much enjoy your site – but isn’t it strange there was never any traction on that case if it really was the real deal?

    The article itself is interesting – I wonder how the Constitutional Court ended up ruling. The issue was whether or to publicize the photos of some 671 people convicted of sex crimes with minors. (I guess that’d mean the American English teacher was convicted of attempted rape of a minor.)

    The article (like so many, alas) is poorly written and a bit difficult to decipher – take for example the second to last paragraph, which seems to indicate another violation by foreigners.

    It explains that the list of sex offenders includes “a security guard who surreptitiously videotaped underage girls with three other foreigners.”

    This leaves a lot to ponder. What is meant by “other foreigners” and what is meant by “underage girls with three [] foreigners”?

    Presumably the “security guard” and the “girls” are Korean and by “other foreigners” the writer means in addition to the “American English teacher” foreigner.

    Whether or not these “three other foreigners” are on the list of sex offenders isn’t clear. Like too many articles in the Korean press the sloppy wording (whether in English of Korean) insinuates something negative. If the foreigners were in cahoots “with” the Korean security guard (seems odd) in videotaping the girls then they’d be on the list – if videotaping was enough to bring a charge of a sex offense with a minor for the guard.

    Another (equally odd) reading would have the security guard secretly videotaping the foreigners engaging in sexual acts “with” the girls. If that were the case then – even if it were consensual – the foreigners still would probably have ended up on the list since minors by law can’t give consent. But if the “three other foreigners” were on the list you would think they’d get top-billing like the “American English teacher”.

    The reading that seems most plausible (but obscured but the poor wording) is that the underage girls were indeed “with” the foreigners but that there was nothing illicit going on. They were, say, having an English class or a chat, etc. and the security guard was videotaping the girls in some inappropriate manner. If that was the case then the “with three other foreigners” was insidiously gratuitous.

    At some point I hope to find out if I can get a hold of actual data on all these alleged crimes of foreigners we see in the press, particularly those of E-2 visa holders. I’d like to see how rational the new E-2 visa regulations requiring criminal background checks, AIDS and drug testing actually are. I’m told that the Korean Institute of Criminology – http://www.kic.re.kr/english/index.asp – may have the data.
    (If anyone knows better, could you let me know?)

    I hope not to find another explanation that “public perception is no less important than rational judgement” as given by UDP leader Sohn Hak-kyu in the U.S. beef case. (sigh…)

    BKW · May 31st, 2008 at 3:21 PM

  • […] of a speaking-centric testing system will simply bolster any aspect of the industry involving us white barbarians esteemed educators. And most certainly a more strengthening demand for native teachers and the […]

    Galbijim.com » Blog Archive » Interview with Samsung HR, “TOEFL & TOEIC requirements will be scrapped” · June 6th, 2008 at 10:08 PM

  • Hello! Can I add something to not very close to this topic?
    I’m korean from Russia. when I came to Korea I was so suprised that the Koreans like so much English with American pronounciation. Wow, and I never saw such adoring of English language.
    If you speak on English here that for other people it is wow…

    Irina · August 1st, 2008 at 2:45 PM

  • Hi, I am an English teacher and I had fun reading all of your comments. I do agree that some Korean guys really hurt their gf. But truth to tell, so do other guys from other races.

    I do agree too about Koreans loving English too much. I can see that. Even to the point that they associate English fluency to a certain race. It’s too bad.

    All I can say is I am not American. And my students don’t know it..

    mim · November 19th, 2008 at 12:55 PM

  • […] Seoul Shinmun recently interviewed Mr. Lee Eun-ung, a member of the Anti-English Spectrum Cafe that works for the deportation of English teachers who are either unqualified, do drugs, or have […]

    Korea Beat › Anti-English Spectrum Cafe Interviewed in Seoul Shinmun · November 28th, 2008 at 1:10 AM

  • You guys absolutely have a no life. You’re JUST and English teacher, all you can do is speak English. 능력도없고 할줄아는것도 없고 나이들고 할일없어서 기껏 한다는게 영어강사 ㅋㅋㅋ. You have absolutely no respect for koreans. Spreading myth such as “Any Korean girls will want to sleep with White guys and that is true love, mean while Korean guys dating white girls are a federal offense” also funny thing is that the girls who get aren’t normal type of girls… just hianas… the sluttiest sluts who wonders around itaewon looking for a free lay and drinks with foreign man slut who is good for nothing. Normal type of Korean girls usually NEVER date white guys specially the rich ones and the HOT ones… … and myth that all Korean men treat women like shit? look at you guys in Itaewon… raping a drunk girl is a true love when it involves a 능력없는 fat loser like you guys and a sluttiest slut of Korean race? haha… ironic… … funny because in the US there are clinics for abused youth and abused wives, counciling centers and hotlines all over lol… yeah now you’re gonna say its 100% Korean Americans only? LOL

    IHAVEALIFE · February 11th, 2009 at 3:20 AM

  • Havealife:

    븅신아.잘들어. “Any Korean girls will want to sleep with White guys and that is true love, mean while Korean guys dating white girls are a federal offense”라는 myth는 또 어디서 들었냐? 니 영어실력이 그렁게 부족하냐? 한국남자가 외국여자를 사귀는것에 대해서 아무도 뭐라 하지 않는다. 그게 바로 요점이야. 한국남자들이 유난히 열등감에 사로잡혀 외국남자가 한국여자를 사귀는 꼴을 못봐서들 난리 아니냐. 진정 (1)한국여성의 비하 (2)자녀들의 영어교육이 걱정되면 왜 한국사회부터 청소를 안하냐고? “문화와 축제의 거리”라 불리는 일산 LaFesta에 가면 밤마다 뭐가 보이는지 아냐? 남의 집 딸들을 팔아먹는 삐끼/포주새끼들이 뿌리고 다니는 룸살롱 명함들, 그리고 사방에 깔린 안마시술소들. 이게 한국여성을 존중하는 방법이냐? 한국인 강사/하교선생들에게 성추행/성폭행 당하는 여중고생들이 얼마나 많은지 아냐? 다시 말하지만, (1)과(2)는 핑계에 불과하고, 요점은 한국남자들은 전반적으로 여자를 소유물로 생각하기 때문에 한국여자를 외국인한테 “뺏기는 꼴”을 참아 배 아파 못 봐준다는 것이다. 난 혼혈이다. 평생 한국에서 자랐다. 우리 아버지가 한국인이고 어머니가 백인이라는 점에 대해서 아무도 문제 삼지 않는다. 오히려 아버지가 “능력 있으셨나 보내”란 지랄같은 “치찬”을 들었다. 그러나 반대로 아버지가 외국인이고 어머니가 한국인인 혼혈아들에 대해선 졸라 논란이 많다. 여기서 평생 살아왔기 때문에 나는 안다. 한국사회가 얼마나 위선적이고 가식적인지를…

    Translation for English-speaking folks:
    Moron. Listen up. Where did you get this myth that foreigners think “Any Korean girls will want to sleep with White guys and that is true love, mean while Korean guys dating white girls are a federal offense”? Is your English that poor? No one has expressed disapproval of foreign women dating Korean guys. And this is precisely the point. Korean men are plagued with insecurity and can’t stand the sight of a foreign man with a Korean woman. If the primary issues for you truly are (1)the degradation of Korean women, and (2)the quality of English education for our children, then why not start by cleaning up Korean society? Do you know what I see every night as I walk past the LaFesta area in Ilsan, which local officials have labeled “street of culture and festivity?” Pimps and lurers littering namecards and ads for their room salons, where they sell our own daughters and sisters. Dozens of massage parlors scattered throughout the neighborhood. Is this how we prevent the degradation of Korean women? Do you how commonly Korean teachers at schools/hagwons sexually abuse their middle/high school students? Again, I emphasize that reasons (1) and (2) are merely poor excuses to cover the truth of the matter, which is that Korean men, for the most part, DO think of women as objects/possessions, and therefore cannot stand to “lose” them to foreign men. I am bi-racial. I have spent most of my life in Korea. No one has ever griped about my father being Korean and my mother being caucasion. In fact, they praise him for his “skill” in reeling in a “white one.” On the other hand, many of my friends who were born to foreign fathers and Korean mothers have had to endure the disapproving glances of Korean society. I have grown up in this country, so I know what I’m talking about. This is an intolerably hypocritical and shallow society.

    DimebagLives · February 23rd, 2009 at 12:11 PM

  • […] this site is devoted to hating English teachers in Korea. It has been noted in the media before, but it’s new to me. The group is “English Spectrum” and, apparently, they spend […]

    They hate me, but it’s okay, ’cause I don’t understand « An Expat in Korea · April 8th, 2009 at 1:17 PM

  • […] teachers were Korean, so expect Anti-English Spectrum to pretend this never happened. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Student commits […]

    Drunk high-school teachers have a fistfight … in front of their students « Extra! Korea · July 17th, 2009 at 9:11 AM

  • WANNA WORK WITH YOU GUYS.

    HANS CHERRY · October 8th, 2009 at 2:17 AM

  • […] Seoul Shinmun recently interviewed Mr. Lee Eun-ung, a member of the Anti-English Spectrum Cafe that works for the deportation of English teachers who are either unqualified, do drugs, or have […]

    Anti-English Spectrum Cafe Interviewed in Seoul Shinmun | KoreaBeat · March 10th, 2013 at 7:37 PM

  • […] of a speaking-centric testing system will simply bolster any aspect of the industry involving us white barbarians esteemed educators. And most certainly a more strengthening demand for native teachers and the […]

    Interview with Samsung HR, "TOEFL & TOEIC requirements will be scrapped" - EverydayKorea.com | EverydayKorea.com · May 22nd, 2013 at 7:04 AM

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